We are so grateful to Author Deborah Swift for making the time to talk to us. We enjoyed a fascinating conversation, about her newest novel, the part readers play in helping to build character, why rooms with multiple doors work best in fiction, the value of silence, and so much more.
How many historical fiction books have you written, which is most recent, and what is it about?
I’m the author of thirteen books so far, one of which is awaiting publication. My most recent release is Entertaining Mr Pepys, which is the story of real actress Mary Elizabeth Knepp, who was on stage in the 17th Century, at the same time as the more famous Nell Gwyn. Previously all roles were played by men, so this was the first opportunity for women to appear on the stage and for women’s voices to be heard. I uncovered Mary Knepp’s existence from the diaries of Samuel Pepys, England’s most famous diarist, and a great lover of the theater. Her life story is one of rags to riches and includes one of the most well-known events of the period, The Great Fire of London.
You worked previously as a scenographer and a costume designer for theater and TV. Was writing historical fiction a natural next step for you?
My research methods for both are fairly similar, and both require a visual eye and an ability to decode text into something that will resonate with an audience. When I’m working to decode text for a theatre performance, I’m aware of how much the writer has allowed for an actor’s interpretation. These ‘spaces’ allow for new and interesting ways to look at the material. We have all probably seen dozens of Hamlet’s, and all of them different. When writing, I have to apply the same rule; i.e. to allow spaces for the reader’s imagination to assist in building the character. This results in a richer more nuanced character, and one that is individual to the reader. Like in a play, I seek to engage the reader, rather than to impose or enforce my view of a character.
In dialogue, like real people, the lines have to speak for themselves, and you must get to know the character gradually like you would a real person, by what they say and the way they say it. ‘The way they say it’ is where there is room for the reader’s interpretation, and I like to use dialogue that can be read in different ways.
Along with writing, you continue to teach scenography to theater students. Could writing students benefit from such instruction as well?
Something I think is really valuable is the idea we have in theater of providing the setting which has the most opportunity for interaction. I tend to like rooms with more than one door, and hallways where there are many entrances, and stairs from one place to another. In a novel, these can be really useful places to stage a scene, with the possibility of people arriving or leaving or overhearing from many different directions. Moving environments are particularly interesting, as they are introducing change in themselves.
Too often I read novels where the setting is a static backdrop, rather than a living, breathing place. People tend to sit at a kitchen table, whereas it is suddenly much more interesting if the kitchen table is upside down because someone is mending it, and the vital conversation has to go on over the hammering, and with the cup and saucer held awkwardly in the hand. Also, from set design, I have learned that a simple change in environment can easily signal time passing, or that the state of mind of the character can be echoed in the environment, and that these shifts for character are more effective than atmosphere for its own sake.
Most writers of historical fiction begin with a person or event that is of interest to them and move out from there. You sometimes begin with an abstract idea, such as nature mysticism or beauty, and examine it from a historical perspective. Since the mysteries of both have intrigued throughout history, how do you choose the best historical setting for your inquiry?
Certain eras appeal to me more than others because I have researched them more. I find it quite hard to escape the 17th Century, as it was full of enormous changes to State, to Religion, and to Science in England. Though I have found myself drawn to settings in Spain, and most recently in Italy because they serve my purposes. My interest in Spain was in the fact that in the 17th Century Spain was staunchly Catholic when in England Catholicism was forbidden. I like contrasts and the idea of reconciling opposites, and I wanted to play with the fact that human beings are apt to see their own truth as absolute—an idea I aimed to question. I used the two settings, Catholic Spain and Protestant England, in the same book to explore the meaning of faith and family.
My books set in WW2 focus on women who fight the war in a different way from men. Quite often women are seen as passively ‘keeping the home fires burning,’ and these books aim to show that what appears to be passive is, in fact, anything but, and demands a different kind of ‘fighting’ that is just as courageous.
Which historical events appeal to you most as a writer?
I particularly enjoy writing about characters who are ordinary people. King and Queens have never interested me much, although the repercussions of their actions can affect those much further down the ladder. I’m interested in how people deal with the lot they’ve been given— and in how people make the best of extraordinary circumstances. In the three books based on Pepys’ diaries, the women have to cope with the change from strict Puritan to lax Libertarian rule, with the tragedy of the Plague, and with the Fire that consumes their lives and their city. At the same time, they have their own ambitions, desires and fears.
In addition to writing adult historical fiction, you’ve written a series of books for teens. What has to change from one genre to the other?
Teen fiction was an experiment for me. I was told there was no interest in historical fiction for teens, but I vividly remembered reading historical novels when I was a teen, though nothing was specifically written for the teenage group then; we just read children’s or adult books. What I tried to do was to create the sense of a peer group (an idea which didn’t really exist in my historical period), to get across the idea of the characters wanting to change the world they’d inherited, and to give a sense of how tender and painful young love could be when it is your first taste of adult relationships. The language is more direct in these books, although I didn’t want to talk down to readers, and they are generally pacier. They are only half the length of my adult novels, so much quicker to read. So far though, they’ve been read mostly by adults, who find them online under my other books. It surprises me how few people read the blurb that tells you they are for young adults!
Which of your novels would make the best film or TV series and why?
I would love to see A Divided Inheritance made into a film, partly because I think I fell slightly for Senor Alvarez in the novel and would love to see who they cast! But as a story, it has so much going for it in terms of drama and plot. The journey that Elspet takes—from being a sedate lace-manufacturer in cold, wet England to learning to use a sword in the searing heat of the Spanish fencing school—would be exciting to watch, and the story of the Muslim expulsion from Spain is a tragic and little known part of history that deserves much more notice.
Your Twitter description says you are a “fan of silence.” Talk about that.
I need silence when I’m writing. I’m also a keen meditator and have been for very many years. I have grown to appreciate the gaps and silent spaces between thoughts, or between events, and to see that the silence sustains everything. Paying attention to silence helps to ground me in the here and now, which, when you spend so much time in your own thoughts as a writer, is an essential skill, and something that I hope gives my life balance.
What can readers learn by signing up for your newsletter, The Astonishing Past?
My newsletter is a great chance for me to chat with readers and have a more personal relationship with them and get to know their interests, so it has those benefits for me. What I aim to provide is an interesting slice of our astonishing history each month that I think my readers will enjoy. I try to choose something that is visually interesting, and has a link to more in-depth material if people want to know more. Often this can be a film about an object—like the archive footage of the restoration of an old book, or I might show pictures of an interesting artifact, such as the last surviving letter of Mary Queen of Scots. My readers sometimes send me ideas too!
I enjoy researching what to include, and it makes an interesting journey for me as well as my readers. Sometimes it is related to research I’m doing for my books. I like to include some book chat about what I’m reading or writing, and usually offer a free or discounted book, or the chance to enter a draw.
Do you ever feel a pull to write something contemporary?
For me, that itch is scratched by working on my books set in WW2, which are far more modern, although not contemporary. I think I will always want to write about the past because I’m passionate about history. What interests me about historical fiction is that by using a mirror from another era we can learn the lessons of the past, and also reflect on the things in life that are eternal and transcend time and space.
Thank you for hosting me Joan, they were lovely questions.
Twitter @swiftstory https://twitter.com/swiftstory
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authordeborahswift/
Website www.deborahswift.com
Most recent books:
Entertaining Mr Pepys mybook.to/EntertainingMrPepys
The Occupation http://getbook.at/TheOccupation
Photo credit: Sarah Mulliner
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